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Dress by Diotima.
Noma Dumezweni has kind of done it all. In 2006, she won a Laurence Olivier Award for her role as Ruth in A Raisin in the Sun, the classic play by Lorraine Hansberry. A few years later, in 2015, she famously landed the role as Hermione Granger in the original West End and Broadway runs of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, for which she received her second Laurence Olivier Award and a Tony Award nomination. Most recently, she played the intense and passionate defense attorney Haley Fitzgerald in HBOâs The Undoing opposite Nicole Kidman and Hugh Grant. Now, sheâs starring in the new HBO Max comedy series Made For Love, about a woman on the run from a toxic relationship with a tech billionaire, and is currently filming the live-action version of Disneyâs The Little Mermaid, starring Halle Bailey of Chloe x Halle. To discuss her expansive career, Dumezweni hopped on a Zoom call with her fellow British actress and Oscar-nominated friend Cynthia Erivo to discuss the difference between theater and film, the joys of being an old soul, and learning to declare you deserve love. âJULIANA UKIOMOGBE
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NOMA DUMEZWENI: Well, we did it. Oh, Cynthia.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Hi, hello.
DUMEZWENI: Look at you and your bloody Los Angeles weather. Iâm in London.
ERIVO: Oh, what are you doing in London?
DUMEZWENI: I arrived yesterday. Iâm here to start Little Mermaid-ing.
ERIVO: What are you doing in Little Mermaid?
DUMEZWENI: I canât tell you. I can say that Iâm doing it, and thatâs whatâs great. Itâs now official.
ERIVO: Text me and Iâll text you what Iâm doing in Pinocchio.
DUMEZWENI: Oh my god. I think I know. Thank you for doing this, because Iâm going, âSheâs fucking busy.â
ERIVO: But hereâs the thing, it came up and I was like, âYes.â I didnât even think about it. Just because I know we havenât had a good talk for a long time. I just want to know whatâs been going on. I want to find out what your experience has been so far.
DUMEZWENI: When I arrived in New York, you were so bloody lovely to me. Finally, we finally met after years of snooping each other. Youâd done The Color Purple two years before and youâd literally broken fucking barriers, babe. Are we waiting for the O to get the EGOT? Weâre waiting for the O, arenât we?
ERIVO: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DUMEZWENI: I just got chills. Itâs coming. You know itâs coming, donât you?
ERIVO: Thank you. Oh my gosh. Well, now that youâre saying itâŚ
DUMEZWENI: I just spoke a truth.
ERIVO: Iâve always been a fan of yours. You have this real understanding and certainty of everything you are. Whenever you step in front of anyone, thereâs just no shame about it.
DUMEZWENI: Thank you, baby.
ERIVO: Did you have that for a long while and we were just waiting to see it? Or has it come in the last few years?
DUMEZWENI: Itâs come in the last few years. Iâve met the universeâs ask. The universe is asking me to do this, whatever you want to call it. God. Allah. The Spirit. I call it Divine Source. I just go, âYouâve been waiting for me to arrive for you.â As Iâm getting older, Iâm getting much more certain in my spirituality. When I was younger, I was agnostic. But then, magical things have happened in my life to make me go, thereâs other stuff going on here. That realization came at 44. I took a plane out to South Africa, and I saw my mom and my dad together for the first time since I was 12. That was a miracle moment. And then, all these stories Iâve told myself about being a child of a single parent, I went, âNot worthy, not worthy, not worthy, not worthy.â I made up this story. When I saw these people, I realized their story wasnât my story.
ERIVO: Itâs the humanization of our parents that makes us realize, âOh, theyâre on their own journey. And so am I.â
DUMEZWENI: Our gods and goddesses are human.
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Top by Dries Van Noten. Skirt by Nina Ricci. Pants(worn as headwrap) by Salvatore Ferragamo. Ring (worn on right hand) by Jennifer Fisher. Earrings and Ring (worn on left hand) by Vhernier.
ERIVO: I also have gotten to a place with everything where I just want to be as transparent as I possibly can so people can understand my experience.
DUMEZWENI: Youâre also doing it with love. Thatâs what I thought was great. And thereâs no judgment.
ERIVO: I donât believe in carrying around bad energy. Some people call it grudges, some people call it hate. I donât think thatâs good for our path. Sometimes we think that doing that is affecting the other person, and itâs actually doing the very opposite. I gained something from that experience so that I could carry it forward to where I am right now.
DUMEZWENI: I look back and I said, âI didnât do drama school. They know something better than I do. Iâm not bright enough.â All those things, putting yourself away. Then I look now, and go, âOh god, I wouldnât change my story for anything.â
ERIVO: Iâm so excited for you. So you do Harry Potter in London. Do they already know itâs coming to Broadway? Or do they decide halfway?
DUMEZWENI: I think they knew quite early on. I know that weâd heard about it after it had just opened in previews as a potential that it might happen. So, itâs towards the end of finishing the show and itâs looking like itâs happening. That seven months was glorious. Because I went, âItâs a break, I can do other brilliant pieces of work.â So I did Black Earth Rising with Michaela [Coel], which was fantastic. And The Kid Who Would Be King, The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind. Those were lovely little practices of TV and film. I always call TV and film practice. And then, you arrive and you do Broadway. Thatâs where I got to meet you. Youâve just been so fucking supportive. You just check in, here and there, which I absolutely adore. Then I got The Undoing, which was fantastic.
ERIVO: I have to say, first of all, everyone is in love with you.
DUMEZWENI: Thank you very, much. It was a learning curve, but it really prepared me for everything else thatâs coming after. Nicole [Kidman] and Hugh [Grant] were amazing. All of the actors were amazing. The piece was great. The writing was great. But, I was like, âIâm still on theater mode.â The first full week, I thought I was going to be fired. I thought, âIâm not good enough, Iâm too big, theyâre telling me to go quiet. I keep throwing to the back of the room. I just canât do that intimate TV thing.â One learns it.
ERIVO: You have to learn. And hereâs the thing, when I was doing The Color Purple, [Celie] is small by nature. So I wasnât acting to the back of the room, because for me, the idea was that you have to come to her. Sheâs not an outward person. When I did Widows with Steve [McQueen], he was like, âItâs too small.â
DUMEZWENI: Stop it.
ERIVO: Yeah. And I still sometimes fall into it, where itâs like, âYou can give me more than that.â
DUMEZWENI: Oh, wow. I love that thatâs your default and itâs easy for you to get bigger. Itâs a practice, and I do feel like a newbie at this age. Thatâs what The Undoing taught me. So then going onto Made for Love, it was like, âOh this is easy, Iâm doing my own accent for a start. Iâm doing a nice little supporting role. Cristin [Milioti] and Billy [Magnussen] are going to be our leading actors.â Itâs my first time in L.A. Itâs been amazing, baby. Because I will say what The Undoing taught me was to not need validation from a director, but to get on. I will walk to another job going, âOkay, how can we make this work?â Not, âWhat do you think of me? Do you like me, do you like what Iâm doing?â
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Bodysuit Nomaâs Own. Skirt by Gucci. Bracelet and Rings by Jennifer Fisher. Earrings by Vhernier.
ERIVO: Itâs a shift that you have to make when that happens. Itâs more of a collaboration. âHereâs what we can do, hereâs how we can maybe try and figure this out.â
DUMEZWENI: Yes, absolutely.
ERIVO: I wonder if thatâs to do with the person on the other side of it. Itâs one thing to say, âIâm collaborating with this person,â but if the other person isnât collaborating with you, then you canât. Neither one of us will learn how to if you donât actually meet in the middle.
DUMEZWENI: Absolutely. Thatâs a very astute way of putting it. Thatâs exactly it.
ERIVO: What are you looking forward to? I feel like you have this new stretch of life in front of you that Iâm not sure that you knew was coming.
DUMEZWENI: When we met, it was like, âWell, Iâm going to be doing this on Broadway and then going back to London, and letâs just see what happens.â But itâs changed my life. Iâm enjoying the TV and film exploration. In theater, I know exactly how to present itâwhere I vibrate, where I resonate. I realized that I want my daughter to know that she can.Â
ERIVO: I love that. Again, youâre creating freedom for people to create. It really is your mission.
DUMEZWENI: You are witchy. Yes you are.
ERIVO: Do you pick your roles specifically?Â
DUMEZWENI: Itâs my body. My body either goes âyesâ or it goes ânah.â Itâs very clear. Iâve learned to trust my body, not my head. When my head starts weighing in, then I know thereâs something wrong. If itâs trying to reason, my headâs got to be out of the way. I am in a position now that things are coming towards me, that I can, âOh, yes.â Because itâs not usually the actual piece, I want to see who is playing. Thatâs what Iâm interested in. I have to feel my way through it, and if youâre not on that, if I canât play with you, weâre not going to create.
ERIVO: Iâve enjoyed watching your journey through it all. Because I know how much you deserve it. I know how much youâve put in. I know how much youâve worked. So I know how much you have earned the space. There comes a point where you go, âI could keep waiting to be accepted for the things I bring to the table. Or I could make it myself.â
DUMEZWENI: But society teaches you a certain thing. Youâre the generation that goes, âFuck society, letâs get on with it.â And I love that. Fuckâs sake, thatâs exactly what it is. Thatâs brilliant.
ERIVO: I know that we never really get asked this question. Love. How do you feel about it? What do you want from it? Have you found it? Are you looking for it?
DUMEZWENI: All of the above. But I havenât found it. Thatâs one of the things I went low with. Thatâs been in the air for me. And I think Iâve concentrated on work and baby, and thatâs been my safe space as Iâm getting vulnerable, as Iâm opening up in my creativity. You go, âOh, girl. What does love look like?â I know, for me, love looks like loving people. I love energies. I go, âHow can I serve you, how can I make you feel better?â Itâs interesting because youâre a Capricorn, and Iâm a Capricorn moon. Whoever Iâm going to love, I go, âYouâve got to be amazing.â Whoever that person is has got to be amazing.
![](https://i0.wp.com/www.interviewmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/noma1-BW.jpg?resize=696%2C928&ssl=1)
Jacket and Pants by Diotima. Top by Salvatore Ferragamo. Earrings by Saint Laurent by Anthony Vaccarello. Ring by Jennifer Fisher. Shoes by Gucci.
ERIVO: Yeah. I know we always think itâs some big ask to find someone who is everything you want, but everything I want might not necessarily be the same as you want. Your everything is very different from my everything.
DUMEZWENI: Very different, but thatâs the beauty of love.
ERIVO: I wonder if youâre in a space to say to yourself, âI deserve it now.â
DUMEZWENI: I just had this conversation recently with a friend in exactly those words. âDo I?â And I realized I havenât felt that I deserved it. Letâs leave that for a moment because Iâm feeling a bit⌠[Pause] Oh, baby. Itâs huge. Thank you for opening me up and letting me say that. Because I donât speak in that way. I donât do that. But I think itâs so important, and I think everyone wants to connect. I love you, thank you for that.
ERIVO: I love you, too. Iâll say it. You deserve it. And when youâre ready, you can say you deserve it, too.
DUMEZWENI: You know what? Iâll say it right now. I deserve it. Thank you, baby.
ERIVO: Congratulations on everything. Iâm so excited about all of the things that are coming your way. Because they are.
DUMEZWENI: They are. I do feel that. Youâre an old soul. Fully grown.
ERIVO: Thank you.
DUMEZWENI: Iâm so excited for you. Fuck off. Go on with your bad self.
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Dress by Alexander McQueen. Hat by Nina Ricci. Earrings by Vhernier. Ring Nomaâs Own. Shoes by Saint Laurent by Anthony Vaccarello.
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Art Direction by Daniel Arroyo.
Production by Boom Productions.
Retouching by Atelier Ninety Nine.
Makeup by Tara Lauren.
Hair by Ro Morgan.